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	<title>Comments on: Price Waterhouse India&#8217;s Slumdog Millionaires &#8211; Cheating Pays</title>
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	<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/</link>
	<description>The Business of the Big 4 Audit Firms</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:58:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How Will We Solve The Financial Crisis? The Answer Is Bigger Than You And I</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-93282</link>
		<dc:creator>re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How Will We Solve The Financial Crisis? The Answer Is Bigger Than You And I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-93282</guid>
		<description>[...] Joanathan and I have exchanged emails and shared insights. I&#8217;m so glad he has listened to my whispering in his ear and wrote the article he had in him the whole time he was writing about individual cases. One of the problems I have had in getting attention to this issue is that there are so many other fish to fry &#8211; the companies themselves, the ratings agencies, individual executives. It seemed until recently that it was gloves off and the Big 4 was getting a pass.  Until Madoff and Satyam. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Joanathan and I have exchanged emails and shared insights. I&#8217;m so glad he has listened to my whispering in his ear and wrote the article he had in him the whole time he was writing about individual cases. One of the problems I have had in getting attention to this issue is that there are so many other fish to fry &#8211; the companies themselves, the ratings agencies, individual executives. It seemed until recently that it was gloves off and the Big 4 was getting a pass.  Until Madoff and Satyam. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Francine McKenna: The Great American Financial Sandwich: Goldman Sachs, PricwaterhouseCoopers LLP and AIG&#160;&#124;&#160;Deconstructing The News</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-87103</link>
		<dc:creator>Francine McKenna: The Great American Financial Sandwich: Goldman Sachs, PricwaterhouseCoopers LLP and AIG&#160;&#124;&#160;Deconstructing The News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-87103</guid>
		<description>[...] wrote similarly about PwC with regard to the Satyam fraud. The dilemma for the PwC Global senior leadership &#8220;crisis team&#8221; now in India is that the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] wrote similarly about PwC with regard to the Satyam fraud. The dilemma for the PwC Global senior leadership &#8220;crisis team&#8221; now in India is that the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Francine McKenna: The Great American Financial Sandwich: Goldman Sachs, PricwaterhouseCoopers LLP and AIG</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-87079</link>
		<dc:creator>Francine McKenna: The Great American Financial Sandwich: Goldman Sachs, PricwaterhouseCoopers LLP and AIG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-87079</guid>
		<description>[...] wrote similarly about PwC with regard to the Satyam fraud. The dilemma for the PwC Global senior leadership &#8220;crisis team&#8221; now in India is that the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] wrote similarly about PwC with regard to the Satyam fraud. The dilemma for the PwC Global senior leadership &#8220;crisis team&#8221; now in India is that the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Great American Financial Sandwich: AIG, PwC, and Goldman Sachs</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-86429</link>
		<dc:creator>re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Great American Financial Sandwich: AIG, PwC, and Goldman Sachs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-86429</guid>
		<description>[...] wrote similarly about PwC with regard to the Satyam fraud. The dilemma for the PwC Global senior leadership &#8220;crisis team&#8221; now in India is that the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] wrote similarly about PwC with regard to the Satyam fraud. The dilemma for the PwC Global senior leadership &#8220;crisis team&#8221; now in India is that the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Francine</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-50943</link>
		<dc:creator>Francine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-50943</guid>
		<description>@People Who Change

Thanks for your comment.  I will admit I have never been to India but I am well aware of the culture and the challenges you must face.  In fact, much of the interest and ongoing encouragement to me to continue writing about Satyam has come from Indians both in India and in the US.  They really want to see the story read and critiqued outside of India in order to escape the &quot;level of corruption that is acceptable under a contemporary standard&quot; that hampers an objective look at it in India.

The bottom line is that Satyam was listed on the NYSE and issued ADRs to US and other investors.  For that reason, the standard must be higher or else the company must be prohibited from participating in the US stock market and keep their corrupt activities in India.

Once Satyam both decided to list on the NYSE and to use a firm like Price Waterhouse as their accountants, a member firm and an important business unit of a global accounting firm, they were playing in a much bigger league. This bigger league sets additional expectations and higher standards than that which you as a legacy accountant in India unfortunately have to put up with every day.

Perhaps Gopal and the other partners took on the money losing Satyam audit becasue there was other money in it, as I have hypothesized in a later post.  Think about it. http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/26/how-satyam-supported-pwcs-schizophrenic-strategy-to-reenter-the-systems-integration-business/

Speaking of cultural differences...&quot;Typically the partners of the firm are very conservative and many times would marry there sons and daughters in families which have a long tradition in public accounting therefore creating a more and more refined gene pool of public accountants who go on to serve the firm.&quot; 
Developing a super gene pool of future accountants by selectively intermarrying the top accountants in the US is something that had not occurred to me as a potential solution to our crisis here.  I will have to discuss that one over a beer with Dennis Howlett. www.accmanpro.com

Francine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@People Who Change</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment.  I will admit I have never been to India but I am well aware of the culture and the challenges you must face.  In fact, much of the interest and ongoing encouragement to me to continue writing about Satyam has come from Indians both in India and in the US.  They really want to see the story read and critiqued outside of India in order to escape the &#8220;level of corruption that is acceptable under a contemporary standard&#8221; that hampers an objective look at it in India.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that Satyam was listed on the NYSE and issued ADRs to US and other investors.  For that reason, the standard must be higher or else the company must be prohibited from participating in the US stock market and keep their corrupt activities in India.</p>
<p>Once Satyam both decided to list on the NYSE and to use a firm like Price Waterhouse as their accountants, a member firm and an important business unit of a global accounting firm, they were playing in a much bigger league. This bigger league sets additional expectations and higher standards than that which you as a legacy accountant in India unfortunately have to put up with every day.</p>
<p>Perhaps Gopal and the other partners took on the money losing Satyam audit becasue there was other money in it, as I have hypothesized in a later post.  Think about it. <a href="http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/26/how-satyam-supported-pwcs-schizophrenic-strategy-to-reenter-the-systems-integration-business/" rel="nofollow">http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/26/how-satyam-supported-pwcs-schizophrenic-strategy-to-reenter-the-systems-integration-business/</a></p>
<p>Speaking of cultural differences&#8230;&#8221;Typically the partners of the firm are very conservative and many times would marry there sons and daughters in families which have a long tradition in public accounting therefore creating a more and more refined gene pool of public accountants who go on to serve the firm.&#8221;<br />
Developing a super gene pool of future accountants by selectively intermarrying the top accountants in the US is something that had not occurred to me as a potential solution to our crisis here.  I will have to discuss that one over a beer with Dennis Howlett. <a href="http://www.accmanpro.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.accmanpro.com</a></p>
<p>Francine</p>
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		<title>By: People  Who Change</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-50926</link>
		<dc:creator>People  Who Change</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-50926</guid>
		<description>Hi, i think your post on this one is not objective. It appears that though a lot of personal information of the firm has been collated but it lacks context. I know a lot about the firm as many generations from my family have worked with the firm. My uncle when he qualified as CA was top 50 in the country on the exam every subsequent generation in the family strives to produce public accountants and go on to serve with firm on merit. Therefore it is not uncommon for the firm to have partners who are related to each other as we live a long family tradition. Typically the partners of the firm are very conservative and many times would marry there sons and daughters in families which have a long tradition in public accounting therefore creating a more and more refined gene pool of public accountants who go on to serve the firm.
be
Secondly, it is the sheer hard work of the employees of the firm which has kept it afloat for 125 yrs the biggest problem is that you need to wake up to the fact that India ranks around 120 on the transparency internationals list of most corrupt countries. Therefore which basically means that almost all Indian listed companies except maybe the Tata group and HDFC companies a are riddled with some degree of fraud or corruption. This maybe a broad generalisation but because of my long family background in public accounting i know this to be reasonably true.

Which basically means the auditors are left the unenviable job of making a subjective judgement of what level of corruption is OK under a contemporary standard. The second aspect is that audit fee in India is very low the audit fee for Satyam a $2billion dollar is US$700K try to aggregate what the salary cost of the audit team on Satyam would have been in a year and you will come to a conclusion that the firm was incurring a huge financial loss on the audit every year. So the reason maybe some of the old partners were asked to continue is that they are the only folks who are ready to take the risk of assuming the attest risk of a large listed company without really getting fully paid for assuming such a tremendous assurance risk.. 

Basically it seems to be that the blog has been written based on some western value sets or assumption without realising the business context or setting in which the audit failure happened...maybe the reason gopal was the signing partner was because he was on the board of ICAI for 12 yrs and considered to be technically very sound and maybe the best qualified to be a signing partner of a complex audit..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, i think your post on this one is not objective. It appears that though a lot of personal information of the firm has been collated but it lacks context. I know a lot about the firm as many generations from my family have worked with the firm. My uncle when he qualified as CA was top 50 in the country on the exam every subsequent generation in the family strives to produce public accountants and go on to serve with firm on merit. Therefore it is not uncommon for the firm to have partners who are related to each other as we live a long family tradition. Typically the partners of the firm are very conservative and many times would marry there sons and daughters in families which have a long tradition in public accounting therefore creating a more and more refined gene pool of public accountants who go on to serve the firm.<br />
be<br />
Secondly, it is the sheer hard work of the employees of the firm which has kept it afloat for 125 yrs the biggest problem is that you need to wake up to the fact that India ranks around 120 on the transparency internationals list of most corrupt countries. Therefore which basically means that almost all Indian listed companies except maybe the Tata group and HDFC companies a are riddled with some degree of fraud or corruption. This maybe a broad generalisation but because of my long family background in public accounting i know this to be reasonably true.</p>
<p>Which basically means the auditors are left the unenviable job of making a subjective judgement of what level of corruption is OK under a contemporary standard. The second aspect is that audit fee in India is very low the audit fee for Satyam a $2billion dollar is US$700K try to aggregate what the salary cost of the audit team on Satyam would have been in a year and you will come to a conclusion that the firm was incurring a huge financial loss on the audit every year. So the reason maybe some of the old partners were asked to continue is that they are the only folks who are ready to take the risk of assuming the attest risk of a large listed company without really getting fully paid for assuming such a tremendous assurance risk.. </p>
<p>Basically it seems to be that the blog has been written based on some western value sets or assumption without realising the business context or setting in which the audit failure happened&#8230;maybe the reason gopal was the signing partner was because he was on the board of ICAI for 12 yrs and considered to be technically very sound and maybe the best qualified to be a signing partner of a complex audit..</p>
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		<title>By: re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; McKenna Quoted In The Guardian</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-9461</link>
		<dc:creator>re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; McKenna Quoted In The Guardian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-9461</guid>
		<description>[...] the link to my posts on PwC/Satyam, go here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the link to my posts on PwC/Satyam, go here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; PwC Global Board: &#8220;Risk And Quality Top Priorities&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-6663</link>
		<dc:creator>re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; PwC Global Board: &#8220;Risk And Quality Top Priorities&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-6663</guid>
		<description>[...] we know from some of my early stories, Lovelock &amp; Lewes is a part of the PW India firm from a marketing and branding perspective and i...  1) The three legal entities that conduct external audits of clients and are registered with [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we know from some of my early stories, Lovelock &amp; Lewes is a part of the PW India firm from a marketing and branding perspective and i&#8230;  1) The three legal entities that conduct external audits of clients and are registered with [...]</p>
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		<title>By: fm</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-3467</link>
		<dc:creator>fm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-3467</guid>
		<description>@ Richard

Thanks for your comment. I would add…PwC International effectively kicked the tainted firm out of their network, the firm where their partners had been indicted. In signing up another firm to the network, neither the &quot;PwC&quot; partners who moved there, nor the other Big 4 wanted anything to do with the clients that had been audited by the former PwC firm. Most of the staff went to the other Big 3 firms in Japan, and PwC begged them to take them. PwC in Japan audit is now a distant number 4 from being number 1 prior to the scandal. Which is why they are trying to build up their advisory practice with the purchase of BearingPoint Japan.
Francine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Richard</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment. I would add…PwC International effectively kicked the tainted firm out of their network, the firm where their partners had been indicted. In signing up another firm to the network, neither the &#8220;PwC&#8221; partners who moved there, nor the other Big 4 wanted anything to do with the clients that had been audited by the former PwC firm. Most of the staff went to the other Big 3 firms in Japan, and PwC begged them to take them. PwC in Japan audit is now a distant number 4 from being number 1 prior to the scandal. Which is why they are trying to build up their advisory practice with the purchase of BearingPoint Japan.<br />
Francine</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/01/13/price-waterhouse-indias-slumdog-millionaires-cheating-pays/comment-page-1/#comment-3465</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://76.12.174.187/?p=866#comment-3465</guid>
		<description>One correction on the reference to PwC&#039;s action regarding its Japan network member firm as &quot;...kick them out of the network. We have seen that with PwC Japan...&quot;.  As I remember the event, PwC&#039;s actions were not a voluntary enforcement of the firm&#039;s global standards.  Because of one or more legal cases against the firm, PwC Japan was prohibited by the government agency equivalent to the SEC from providing audit services for a period of time that coincided with the normal reporting year end for Japanese companies.  As a result, PwC had to very quickly work out arrangements with another Japanese firm to provide audit services under the PwC Japan banner and terminated the relationship with the previous Japanese firm that had been doing business as PwC Japan.  Up until the suspension by the Japanese government, PwC Global was apparently quite satisfied with its previous network firm in Japan (at least for public consumption).  The way the move was handled and reported in the Asia press, it appeared that PwC was more concerned about the potential loss of audit revenues than the audit practices violations of its previous Japan member firm.  It was never reported whether or not PwC Global provided additional QA oversight for the new Japan firm in its initial year of auditing under the PwC name.  However, it is difficult to believe that a firm not previously following the PwC international standards (to what ever degree anyone reading this blog feels that there are unified global standards among the international networks) was able to make an immediate and complete transition from their previous audit practices and standards to those publicly stated to exist for PwC globally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One correction on the reference to PwC&#8217;s action regarding its Japan network member firm as &#8220;&#8230;kick them out of the network. We have seen that with PwC Japan&#8230;&#8221;.  As I remember the event, PwC&#8217;s actions were not a voluntary enforcement of the firm&#8217;s global standards.  Because of one or more legal cases against the firm, PwC Japan was prohibited by the government agency equivalent to the SEC from providing audit services for a period of time that coincided with the normal reporting year end for Japanese companies.  As a result, PwC had to very quickly work out arrangements with another Japanese firm to provide audit services under the PwC Japan banner and terminated the relationship with the previous Japanese firm that had been doing business as PwC Japan.  Up until the suspension by the Japanese government, PwC Global was apparently quite satisfied with its previous network firm in Japan (at least for public consumption).  The way the move was handled and reported in the Asia press, it appeared that PwC was more concerned about the potential loss of audit revenues than the audit practices violations of its previous Japan member firm.  It was never reported whether or not PwC Global provided additional QA oversight for the new Japan firm in its initial year of auditing under the PwC name.  However, it is difficult to believe that a firm not previously following the PwC international standards (to what ever degree anyone reading this blog feels that there are unified global standards among the international networks) was able to make an immediate and complete transition from their previous audit practices and standards to those publicly stated to exist for PwC globally.</p>
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