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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s A Race To The Finish &#8211; But There Are No Winners</title>
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	<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/</link>
	<description>The Business of the Big 4 Audit Firms</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:53:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Send Lawyers, Guns And Money&#8230; The Big 4 And Their Litigation</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-92959</link>
		<dc:creator>re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Send Lawyers, Guns And Money&#8230; The Big 4 And Their Litigation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-92959</guid>
		<description>[...] addition to the myriad of suits relating to the Lehman collapse and their Madoff feeder fund exposure, Ernst and Young recently went through a terrible phase [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] addition to the myriad of suits relating to the Lehman collapse and their Madoff feeder fund exposure, Ernst and Young recently went through a terrible phase [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-52520</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-52520</guid>
		<description>@ 81

No.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 81</p>
<p>No.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-52391</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-52391</guid>
		<description>Does it seem reasonable that with a good, moral class of recruits that ethical thought could prevail in these cases? You all make it seem like the downfall of the auditing industry is its lack of social responsibility. Schools around the country are teaching ethics courses in their business schools...it&#039;s not too irrational of an idea. Truly making a person understand that it&#039;s more than just what your salary is can certainly impact scores of students. My opinion is: it&#039;s about being able to live with yourself in the long-run. I know I&#039;d have trouble sleeping at night if my employers were acting fraudulently and I was benefiting at the bane of hard-working individuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it seem reasonable that with a good, moral class of recruits that ethical thought could prevail in these cases? You all make it seem like the downfall of the auditing industry is its lack of social responsibility. Schools around the country are teaching ethics courses in their business schools&#8230;it&#8217;s not too irrational of an idea. Truly making a person understand that it&#8217;s more than just what your salary is can certainly impact scores of students. My opinion is: it&#8217;s about being able to live with yourself in the long-run. I know I&#8217;d have trouble sleeping at night if my employers were acting fraudulently and I was benefiting at the bane of hard-working individuals.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-12927</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-12927</guid>
		<description>@79 -- an amazing generalization.  So in your opinion 100% of the B4 partnership are criminals.  Do you know 100% of them and have witnessed their crimes?  Have you even witnessed one and have irrefutable evidence of the crime?  If so, why haven&#039;t you gone to the authorities?  Seems to make you equally criminal if that is the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@79 &#8212; an amazing generalization.  So in your opinion 100% of the B4 partnership are criminals.  Do you know 100% of them and have witnessed their crimes?  Have you even witnessed one and have irrefutable evidence of the crime?  If so, why haven&#8217;t you gone to the authorities?  Seems to make you equally criminal if that is the case.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon111</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-12704</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon111</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 07:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-12704</guid>
		<description>POST #10: The Big 4 are scandalous.  They would be in trouble if they did basic audit work.  They fall into trouble because the hide the fact that they know about fraud and look the other way.  Paper shredding is evidence that known misstatments and fraud exists.  There&#039;s too much money and not enough independence at this level.  There all crooks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>POST #10: The Big 4 are scandalous.  They would be in trouble if they did basic audit work.  They fall into trouble because the hide the fact that they know about fraud and look the other way.  Paper shredding is evidence that known misstatments and fraud exists.  There&#8217;s too much money and not enough independence at this level.  There all crooks.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-9228</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-9228</guid>
		<description>@77 -- I don&#039;t believe any &quot;deserves&quot; to be laid off.  But let&#039;s think about some different angles to this story.  Try these:

1) it is hard to &quot;fire&quot; someone for cuase.  While we live in an &quot;at will&quot; employment world, the truth is that all the litigation in this country makes it really difficult to fire someone.  So -- when lay offs come about for economic reasons... it is a time when those that might be fired can be let go more easily.  These are the people that do not do something blatent such as embezzling... it is the people who do an adequate but not good job, or people that perform OK but have attitude issues.

2) whenever there are layoffs, the decision on who to let go is ALWAYS made based on performance first.  The criteria used to measure performance may be something everyone on this blog will argue about, but it is leadership&#039;s view of performance that is used to make the decisions.  Only after the poor performers are gone are other criteria brought into the picture.

It may not be that anyone deserve to be let go.  But it is often (maybe usually) true that those who are let go find a better place in this world and in the end they were the right ones to let go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@77 &#8212; I don&#8217;t believe any &#8220;deserves&#8221; to be laid off.  But let&#8217;s think about some different angles to this story.  Try these:</p>
<p>1) it is hard to &#8220;fire&#8221; someone for cuase.  While we live in an &#8220;at will&#8221; employment world, the truth is that all the litigation in this country makes it really difficult to fire someone.  So &#8212; when lay offs come about for economic reasons&#8230; it is a time when those that might be fired can be let go more easily.  These are the people that do not do something blatent such as embezzling&#8230; it is the people who do an adequate but not good job, or people that perform OK but have attitude issues.</p>
<p>2) whenever there are layoffs, the decision on who to let go is ALWAYS made based on performance first.  The criteria used to measure performance may be something everyone on this blog will argue about, but it is leadership&#8217;s view of performance that is used to make the decisions.  Only after the poor performers are gone are other criteria brought into the picture.</p>
<p>It may not be that anyone deserve to be let go.  But it is often (maybe usually) true that those who are let go find a better place in this world and in the end they were the right ones to let go.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-9151</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-9151</guid>
		<description>A person who left a comment about everyone &quot;deserving to be laid off&quot; sounds very arrogant.  From my experience, people like that usually reap their own &quot;benefits&quot; later on.  Anyways, I was curious of why would people who are laid off deserve it?  Is it because they were not hanging around seniors, managers or partners offices in order to show off and fit in?  Is it because they were not constantly kissing their a*?  Because from my almost 2 years experience with KPMG, I noticed that this kind of behavior is usually rewarded.  This strategy usually works in earning excellent reviews and getting on the clients that you desire.  So if you happen to be a normal person, who comes to work to do the job, and become upset by sitting around and billing empty client hours, you may just about deserve to be discarded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A person who left a comment about everyone &#8220;deserving to be laid off&#8221; sounds very arrogant.  From my experience, people like that usually reap their own &#8220;benefits&#8221; later on.  Anyways, I was curious of why would people who are laid off deserve it?  Is it because they were not hanging around seniors, managers or partners offices in order to show off and fit in?  Is it because they were not constantly kissing their a*?  Because from my almost 2 years experience with KPMG, I noticed that this kind of behavior is usually rewarded.  This strategy usually works in earning excellent reviews and getting on the clients that you desire.  So if you happen to be a normal person, who comes to work to do the job, and become upset by sitting around and billing empty client hours, you may just about deserve to be discarded.</p>
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		<title>By: fm</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-7254</link>
		<dc:creator>fm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-7254</guid>
		<description>@K-P-M-G

Perhaps you have not read my bio or many of the posts where I discuss my experience in the Big 4.  I&#039;m about as inside as you can get for someone who actually now can talk freely on the outside.  I won&#039;t repeat it here.  It&#039;s on the &quot;About&quot; page as well as many other places.  Suffice to say that your firm, KPMG, as well as BearingPoint and PwC are on my CV as well as senior positions at JP Morgan and Jefferson Wells.  It&#039;s rare that someone who has been a Managing Director (I made &quot;partner&quot; after KPMG Consulting became Bearing Point and in the Latin American practice) and has seen a firm like PwC from the highest levels inside as an &quot;internal&quot; internal auditor has the luxury to talk about what they saw, heard, and did in an independent fashion.  I am not beholden to the firms, I will never work for them again by choice, and I have nothing to gain from seeing them fail.  On the contrary.  What I want is for their leadership and those who still want to work for them, to wake up, smell the coffee and recommit to their duty to the public. 

Due to my years of experience and involvement in professional serivces at an executive level, I have many frineds and former colleagues who still work at these firms as partners and professionals and stil talk to me! I have obviously developed many more contacts in and out of the firms who are willing to tell their stories to me and on the blog in guest posts, privately, and in comments.  Most bloggers and mainstream media who now write about these subjects get their stories and tips from me, not the other way around. 

In fact, there are so many stories I can not tell on the blog because they are even more &quot;extreme.&quot;  I will not tell them until I write the book and have the opportunity to &quot;source&quot; them under those standards.  But many of them I experienced myself or were experienced by close friends and former colleagues. There are many more stories in this &quot;naked city.&quot;

Why or how have I engendered such good fortune? 
By being a straight shooter.
Francine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@K-P-M-G</p>
<p>Perhaps you have not read my bio or many of the posts where I discuss my experience in the Big 4.  I&#8217;m about as inside as you can get for someone who actually now can talk freely on the outside.  I won&#8217;t repeat it here.  It&#8217;s on the &#8220;About&#8221; page as well as many other places.  Suffice to say that your firm, KPMG, as well as BearingPoint and PwC are on my CV as well as senior positions at JP Morgan and Jefferson Wells.  It&#8217;s rare that someone who has been a Managing Director (I made &#8220;partner&#8221; after KPMG Consulting became Bearing Point and in the Latin American practice) and has seen a firm like PwC from the highest levels inside as an &#8220;internal&#8221; internal auditor has the luxury to talk about what they saw, heard, and did in an independent fashion.  I am not beholden to the firms, I will never work for them again by choice, and I have nothing to gain from seeing them fail.  On the contrary.  What I want is for their leadership and those who still want to work for them, to wake up, smell the coffee and recommit to their duty to the public. </p>
<p>Due to my years of experience and involvement in professional serivces at an executive level, I have many frineds and former colleagues who still work at these firms as partners and professionals and stil talk to me! I have obviously developed many more contacts in and out of the firms who are willing to tell their stories to me and on the blog in guest posts, privately, and in comments.  Most bloggers and mainstream media who now write about these subjects get their stories and tips from me, not the other way around. </p>
<p>In fact, there are so many stories I can not tell on the blog because they are even more &#8220;extreme.&#8221;  I will not tell them until I write the book and have the opportunity to &#8220;source&#8221; them under those standards.  But many of them I experienced myself or were experienced by close friends and former colleagues. There are many more stories in this &#8220;naked city.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why or how have I engendered such good fortune?<br />
By being a straight shooter.<br />
Francine</p>
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		<title>By: K-P-M-G</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-7239</link>
		<dc:creator>K-P-M-G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-7239</guid>
		<description>@FM 63

The way you speak makes it sounds like these policies are firm-wide. In any widespread corporation, there are pockets of poor management and collusion to circumvent documented policies/corporate behavior. How can you make such accusations of firm wide collusion, especially for each and every big 4 company... especially since you are an outsider yourself? Don&#039;t use the, &quot;I&#039;ve get much of my information from my bloggers&quot; because @ Disappointed 58 is exactly right. Most of the people you read from are from Camp 3 and 4 as said so eloquently. Every partner @ big4 firms are not going to strip clubs, nor even 1% of all mangers/partners.

This is not a defense of big 4, because as with all business they surely have their prob lems... some more than others. I understand that in order to get a following you must be extreme, but really? Use such broad paint strokes to label four completely different firms over entirely different areas into the same bucket? Get serious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@FM 63</p>
<p>The way you speak makes it sounds like these policies are firm-wide. In any widespread corporation, there are pockets of poor management and collusion to circumvent documented policies/corporate behavior. How can you make such accusations of firm wide collusion, especially for each and every big 4 company&#8230; especially since you are an outsider yourself? Don&#8217;t use the, &#8220;I&#8217;ve get much of my information from my bloggers&#8221; because @ Disappointed 58 is exactly right. Most of the people you read from are from Camp 3 and 4 as said so eloquently. Every partner @ big4 firms are not going to strip clubs, nor even 1% of all mangers/partners.</p>
<p>This is not a defense of big 4, because as with all business they surely have their prob lems&#8230; some more than others. I understand that in order to get a following you must be extreme, but really? Use such broad paint strokes to label four completely different firms over entirely different areas into the same bucket? Get serious.</p>
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		<title>By: re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; PwC Global Board: &#8220;Risk And Quality Top Priorities&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/11/its-a-race-to-the-finish-but-there-are-no-winners/comment-page-2/#comment-6766</link>
		<dc:creator>re: The Auditors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; PwC Global Board: &#8220;Risk And Quality Top Priorities&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1684#comment-6766</guid>
		<description>[...] More important, if as seems likely, PwC is on the hook for massive damages, what about their long term viability? I for one can’t wait to see how PwC spins this one.  Jennifer Hughes wrote on the Op-Ed page of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More important, if as seems likely, PwC is on the hook for massive damages, what about their long term viability? I for one can’t wait to see how PwC spins this one.  Jennifer Hughes wrote on the Op-Ed page of [...]</p>
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