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	<title>Comments on: Do As I Say, Not As I Do &#8211; Whistleblowers In The Big 4</title>
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	<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/</link>
	<description>The Business of the Big 4 Audit Firms</description>
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		<title>By: Eating hours is not cool, and yet a former Big Four partner claims it's all the rage - A Counting School - Hardcore Chartered Accountancy</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5527</link>
		<dc:creator>Eating hours is not cool, and yet a former Big Four partner claims it's all the rage - A Counting School - Hardcore Chartered Accountancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 06:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-5527</guid>
		<description>[...] cultural differences among firms, and this is probably a key example of actions you would expect a whisteblower line to help [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] cultural differences among firms, and this is probably a key example of actions you would expect a whisteblower line to help [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Our poisoned DNA &#124; AccMan</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-4950</link>
		<dc:creator>Our poisoned DNA &#124; AccMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 00:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-4950</guid>
		<description>[...] those old oak trees and bring into question whether we&#8217;re doing the right thing. Elsewhere, Francine is continuing her battle to expose the practices of the Big Four and how they undermine the profession for all of us. Check [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] those old oak trees and bring into question whether we&#8217;re doing the right thing. Elsewhere, Francine is continuing her battle to expose the practices of the Big Four and how they undermine the profession for all of us. Check [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris from D&#38;T</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-4885</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris from D&#38;T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 12:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-4885</guid>
		<description>Gone anyways - Most likely, these firms will eventually cease to exist, but saying we shouldnt debate behaviors by their employees is just idiotic, IMO.  Should we not debate a president&#039;s actions because in 8 years we will have a different one anyways? And while, at this time, all big 4 are assurance companies, which is obviously a regulating activity, do not forget the consulting/advisory side of these firms, how much they have grown and will continue to grow. I heard that in 2008, PwC had 51% if their revenue come from non assurance activites, I have not had this confirmed, nor do I really care to do the research, but if that is true or even close to being true, it brings up a few very interesting questions. But, nevermind, since eventually those firms wont be around, ill just forget about them.....................</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gone anyways &#8211; Most likely, these firms will eventually cease to exist, but saying we shouldnt debate behaviors by their employees is just idiotic, IMO.  Should we not debate a president&#8217;s actions because in 8 years we will have a different one anyways? And while, at this time, all big 4 are assurance companies, which is obviously a regulating activity, do not forget the consulting/advisory side of these firms, how much they have grown and will continue to grow. I heard that in 2008, PwC had 51% if their revenue come from non assurance activites, I have not had this confirmed, nor do I really care to do the research, but if that is true or even close to being true, it brings up a few very interesting questions. But, nevermind, since eventually those firms wont be around, ill just forget about them&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gone anyways</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-4869</link>
		<dc:creator>Gone anyways</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 02:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-4869</guid>
		<description>Why are you even arguing about the Big 4, Chris, your firm will probably be gone eventually in my opinion.  Regulating bodies are not designed to compete, and that is exactly what we do with the Big 4.  Only in the US would we try to let regulating bodies compete for business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are you even arguing about the Big 4, Chris, your firm will probably be gone eventually in my opinion.  Regulating bodies are not designed to compete, and that is exactly what we do with the Big 4.  Only in the US would we try to let regulating bodies compete for business.</p>
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		<title>By: @Deloitte</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-4866</link>
		<dc:creator>@Deloitte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 16:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-4866</guid>
		<description>Any one working at any of the Top 4, or any other large corporation or partnership, who doesn’t understand how much politics, PC and initiatives can and do affect their employment standing is more than just naive. Spite is another big factor, both during and post employment that has a large affect. 

Before working @D I worked at a small company where the two individuals who had the most direct responsibility for my status spent 3 months after I left the firm looking for something to get back at me with. And I left under what I thought were good conditions. They just didn’t like that I left and had been so important to the organization. Kinda weird when you think about the fact that I left because they had lied to me about the expectation of a rate increase based on my year end review, and they knew that was the reason for my departure.

My first year @D everyone who interacted with me knew I’d be on a fast track. My first problem was my Sr. Manager also knew it and didn’t want me to get further than they had. My second problem was that I did not fit within the definition of the, at the time, current prevailing initiative.

I could have sat around and cried about it, I could have vented my anger at every opportunity (admittedly I did occasionally in non-work venues), or I could have chosen the path that I have: Live with it and continue my performance at the level I had always done because that is who I am, that is how I define myself, to myself.

This is now the 4th firm I’ve worked for in the past 15 or so years. It’s been the same at every single one of them. If you are a top performer you run the risk of being marginalized and overlooked because you are best serving your management  in the role you currently hold (meaning: you are the person getting the job done so why would a manager of marginal qualities ever consider promoting you).

Do not misunderstand me. I hold no animosity to the people I have worked under. I understand the drill. I just find it unfortunate that more senior people don’t recognize the realities and do something about them. But, it seems from what I’ve read here that maybe those senior people aren’t any smarter than I.

One thing for certain is that they are better at playing the politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any one working at any of the Top 4, or any other large corporation or partnership, who doesn’t understand how much politics, PC and initiatives can and do affect their employment standing is more than just naive. Spite is another big factor, both during and post employment that has a large affect. </p>
<p>Before working @D I worked at a small company where the two individuals who had the most direct responsibility for my status spent 3 months after I left the firm looking for something to get back at me with. And I left under what I thought were good conditions. They just didn’t like that I left and had been so important to the organization. Kinda weird when you think about the fact that I left because they had lied to me about the expectation of a rate increase based on my year end review, and they knew that was the reason for my departure.</p>
<p>My first year @D everyone who interacted with me knew I’d be on a fast track. My first problem was my Sr. Manager also knew it and didn’t want me to get further than they had. My second problem was that I did not fit within the definition of the, at the time, current prevailing initiative.</p>
<p>I could have sat around and cried about it, I could have vented my anger at every opportunity (admittedly I did occasionally in non-work venues), or I could have chosen the path that I have: Live with it and continue my performance at the level I had always done because that is who I am, that is how I define myself, to myself.</p>
<p>This is now the 4th firm I’ve worked for in the past 15 or so years. It’s been the same at every single one of them. If you are a top performer you run the risk of being marginalized and overlooked because you are best serving your management  in the role you currently hold (meaning: you are the person getting the job done so why would a manager of marginal qualities ever consider promoting you).</p>
<p>Do not misunderstand me. I hold no animosity to the people I have worked under. I understand the drill. I just find it unfortunate that more senior people don’t recognize the realities and do something about them. But, it seems from what I’ve read here that maybe those senior people aren’t any smarter than I.</p>
<p>One thing for certain is that they are better at playing the politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-4864</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 14:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-4864</guid>
		<description>@22 - Chris from D&amp;T:

I&#039;m sure most people on here could handle the work.  If I didn&#039;t work hard and ended up getting laid off, I could easily blame myself, but that wasn&#039;t the case.  

I think most people on here couldn&#039;t &quot;handle&quot; the politics.  Here&#039;s my guess why:  People are working their butts off, but something ridiculous and out of control as politics and playing favorites may have cost some people their jobs.  

Personally I became pretty close with a lot of people that I spent more than a year working with, but they had no control over my schedule or anything HR-related to me once I was done on that engagement.  It was however, definitely controlled by people that had met me maybe once or twice in my first year and a half with the firm.  They probably saw me as a source of income to throw on a job to be chargeable and really couldn&#039;t have cared less what I learned.  

I guess I just &quot;couldn&#039;t handle the politics&quot;.

I like how you come on here and say people are just bashing their former company when maybe we didn&#039;t have all the information.  Did you think you might be bashing a lot of good people who worked hard, more than likely without knowing all the information about each person&#039;s situation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@22 &#8211; Chris from D&amp;T:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure most people on here could handle the work.  If I didn&#8217;t work hard and ended up getting laid off, I could easily blame myself, but that wasn&#8217;t the case.  </p>
<p>I think most people on here couldn&#8217;t &#8220;handle&#8221; the politics.  Here&#8217;s my guess why:  People are working their butts off, but something ridiculous and out of control as politics and playing favorites may have cost some people their jobs.  </p>
<p>Personally I became pretty close with a lot of people that I spent more than a year working with, but they had no control over my schedule or anything HR-related to me once I was done on that engagement.  It was however, definitely controlled by people that had met me maybe once or twice in my first year and a half with the firm.  They probably saw me as a source of income to throw on a job to be chargeable and really couldn&#8217;t have cared less what I learned.  </p>
<p>I guess I just &#8220;couldn&#8217;t handle the politics&#8221;.</p>
<p>I like how you come on here and say people are just bashing their former company when maybe we didn&#8217;t have all the information.  Did you think you might be bashing a lot of good people who worked hard, more than likely without knowing all the information about each person&#8217;s situation?</p>
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		<title>By: ex- a couple of them</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-4849</link>
		<dc:creator>ex- a couple of them</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 05:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-4849</guid>
		<description>Thanks Truman -- you said it well.

To all the anonymous people asking why others remain anonymous -- well they probably stay that way for some of the same reasons that you did! -- 

For my part, even though I&#039;m now out of [Firm 1 of 4] and [Firm 2 of 4] I am notionally bound by clauses in my employment contracts with both, that forbid me from revealing information that I received in confidence thereby causing them commercial harm. 

Do I think they could successfully enforce those clauses? Nah, not really.
Do I want to find that out for sure the hard way? Not at all.
Did I ever meet partners at [Firm 1 of 4] or [Firm 2 of 4] that would be sufficiently motivated by spite to try and enforce them anyway? Absolutely!

Partner X to a colleague of mine leaving [Firm 1] for PwC: &quot;If any information about [deal at Client X] ends up at PwC before this deal closes I will sue you so hard your grandchildren won&#039;t get a mortgage&quot;. Those are the sort of promises you remember!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Truman &#8212; you said it well.</p>
<p>To all the anonymous people asking why others remain anonymous &#8212; well they probably stay that way for some of the same reasons that you did! &#8212; </p>
<p>For my part, even though I&#8217;m now out of [Firm 1 of 4] and [Firm 2 of 4] I am notionally bound by clauses in my employment contracts with both, that forbid me from revealing information that I received in confidence thereby causing them commercial harm. </p>
<p>Do I think they could successfully enforce those clauses? Nah, not really.<br />
Do I want to find that out for sure the hard way? Not at all.<br />
Did I ever meet partners at [Firm 1 of 4] or [Firm 2 of 4] that would be sufficiently motivated by spite to try and enforce them anyway? Absolutely!</p>
<p>Partner X to a colleague of mine leaving [Firm 1] for PwC: &#8220;If any information about [deal at Client X] ends up at PwC before this deal closes I will sue you so hard your grandchildren won&#8217;t get a mortgage&#8221;. Those are the sort of promises you remember!</p>
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		<title>By: chris from D&#38;T</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-4837</link>
		<dc:creator>chris from D&#38;T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 20:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-4837</guid>
		<description>why would giving you my information matter at all? As you post from an anonymous ID, I at least give my first name and firm. I am not bashing any firms and not making any claims about how a firm is performing illegal activities. You all take tiny instances you see or heard of (or in most cases something you think you saw or heard without totally understanding the circumstances around what was going on) and assume entire firms are like this. My guess is that you also think all priests are pedophiles (even though less than 1% of catholic priests were even accused) I am guessing most of you are big 4 rejects who couldnt handle the politics and hard work that is a big4 firm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why would giving you my information matter at all? As you post from an anonymous ID, I at least give my first name and firm. I am not bashing any firms and not making any claims about how a firm is performing illegal activities. You all take tiny instances you see or heard of (or in most cases something you think you saw or heard without totally understanding the circumstances around what was going on) and assume entire firms are like this. My guess is that you also think all priests are pedophiles (even though less than 1% of catholic priests were even accused) I am guessing most of you are big 4 rejects who couldnt handle the politics and hard work that is a big4 firm.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-4819</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 11:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-4819</guid>
		<description>Is anything really wrong with not chasing collections? Its not like they had the cash and held off on depositing it. How is it any different from and individual selling down stocks, making charitable contributions, and contributing to an IRA during the last week of December to manage their own taxable income. No one calls individuals unethical, they call it wise tax planning (hell, Turbo Tax even tries to help you plan strategies like that out). I don&#039;t see how its wise for an individual but unethical for a firm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is anything really wrong with not chasing collections? Its not like they had the cash and held off on depositing it. How is it any different from and individual selling down stocks, making charitable contributions, and contributing to an IRA during the last week of December to manage their own taxable income. No one calls individuals unethical, they call it wise tax planning (hell, Turbo Tax even tries to help you plan strategies like that out). I don&#8217;t see how its wise for an individual but unethical for a firm.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://retheauditors.com/2009/05/13/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do-whistleblowers-in-the-big-4/comment-page-1/#comment-4804</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 02:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retheauditors.com/?p=1702#comment-4804</guid>
		<description>I know of 2 &quot;ethics&quot; situations when I was at PwC

1. The billings and collections reports are not sent out until AFTER Sept 30, so as to reduce the partnership income on a cash collected basis- then everyone is instructed BIG TIME to CHASE ALL OUTSTANDINGS AND CLEAN UP THE UNCOLLECTED...... totally managing the revenue collection process, in fact when one overzealous manager sent out the billings schedule to help her team collect bills faster the REGIONAL RISK MANAGEMENT PARTNER sent an e-mail instructing her to not send out such reports and hold off on collections until October......

2. I know of a case where the HR person called the ethics hotline with a question about a partner- so guess what they did, called the partner up and told him- anytime you &quot;ask Dennis Nally anything&quot; in that e-mail response button he sends around or call that hotline, its never anonymous UNLESS you THINK to point out the fact and phone up from a &quot;hypothetically&quot; view point- NEVER give out your name- you truly cant trust that line it ruins your career if you call it or ask Dennis a controversial question (they only forward it to your local HR)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know of 2 &#8220;ethics&#8221; situations when I was at PwC</p>
<p>1. The billings and collections reports are not sent out until AFTER Sept 30, so as to reduce the partnership income on a cash collected basis- then everyone is instructed BIG TIME to CHASE ALL OUTSTANDINGS AND CLEAN UP THE UNCOLLECTED&#8230;&#8230; totally managing the revenue collection process, in fact when one overzealous manager sent out the billings schedule to help her team collect bills faster the REGIONAL RISK MANAGEMENT PARTNER sent an e-mail instructing her to not send out such reports and hold off on collections until October&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>2. I know of a case where the HR person called the ethics hotline with a question about a partner- so guess what they did, called the partner up and told him- anytime you &#8220;ask Dennis Nally anything&#8221; in that e-mail response button he sends around or call that hotline, its never anonymous UNLESS you THINK to point out the fact and phone up from a &#8220;hypothetically&#8221; view point- NEVER give out your name- you truly cant trust that line it ruins your career if you call it or ask Dennis a controversial question (they only forward it to your local HR)</p>
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