• Deloitte: Can You Still Do Those Things You Do?

    By • Aug 18th, 2009 • Category: Latest, Pure Content


    The drama continues at Deloitte. Their press release issued almost a year ago, in August of 2008, was a rare public acknowledgement by a Big 4 firm of what had been happening at Deloitte and the other firms, quietly, for at least a year – people were being cut and it wasn’t just for poor “performance.”

    The Big 4 audit firms have been feeling the pinch for a while. The backlash against Sarbanes-Oxley costs finally caught up with them in 2006. Clients started taking the upper hand, controlling costs and giving firms ultimatums to get the same or more work done for the same or lower fees. No more 20-50% increases year over year. But the financial crisis hit already vulnerable firms, searching for the “next big thing” in XBRL and IFRS but only seeing regulator delays and clients resisting the pitch. By 2007, the beginning of the end of the mortgage origination firms, as well as ongoing poor results at such institutions as GM, (another Deloitte client), sent a signal that the coming recession would be a doozy, probably punctuated by failures, “sudden” implosions, forced takeovers by the government, and an ever dwindling number of companies with sufficient cash or credit.

    Don’t ever let the audit firms, or anyone else, insist the stench of the failures wasn’t permeating the nostrils of a select few long before the fall of 2008, including the Big 4 auditors who are on the inside, on all sides.  It was the triple whammy in the spring/summer of 2007 of failures/bankruptcies at American Home, New Century, and Countrywide, as well as the nationalization of Northern Rock, that forced me to realize the roof was finally caving in on the housing bubble.

    Jonathan Weil, Bloomberg August 15, 2007:

    “Think about the poor schlimazels from Deloitte & Touche LLP who blessed the books at American Home Mortgage Investment Corp., mere months before it went belly up.
    Five months later, on Aug. 6, American Home filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy-court protection, still brandishing the firm’s clean audit-opinion letter. There’s a reason why you don’t see auditors pursuing second careers as tarot-card readers. They wouldn’t be very good at it…”

    Failures and forced acquisitions were starting to shrink the Big 4 audit services market. It wasn’t just belt tightening due to the looming financial crisis, but because the number of very large financial firms with Big 4 auditors, in particular for Deloitte, were disappearing.

    By March of 2008, we had a crisis, even though it took the September meltdown for anyone in authority to admit it.

    The firms, in particular Deloitte, saw it coming, felt it acutely, and began to act.  Deloitte’s August 2008 admission of almost 1000 cuts due to economic circumstances was a watershed event for me, not only because a press release was issued, but because Deloitte PR gave me an exclusive statement on the actions.

    Unfortunately, since then, even though Deloitte has continued to cut and make other changes such as finally slowing the recruiting pipeline to adjust to the new reality, they have not been as vocal. Maybe they think transparency did not help their image or morale. Maybe the volume of cuts became too frequent for public relations to keep up with. Maybe Deborah Harrington is busy responding to other Deloitte crises such as the Parmalat suit and preparing communications related to their acquisition of BearingPoint’s Federal Services consulting practice.

    That doesn’t mean that the cuts and other human resources actions have stopped or subsided. On the contrary. With the recent loss of United Airlines as an audit client, as well as the effort at absorption of the BearingPoint professionals, new cuts and “rightsizing” are likely necessary. Those remaining are still waiting for official news of regarding promotions, raises and most likely announcements of “no bonuses.”

    From a confidential source:

    “People up for Manager have not received official communication and everyone is pointing their finger at the national office. It’s very late, even some Seniors did not know they were getting promoted until last week, and they found out because they were going to new Senior training this week. To put it in context, when I was promoted, I found out in end of May after the year end meeting for my office and went to training in August.”

    And last week, professionals in the “Regulatory Strategy and Risk Services” line of business received this email from their Managing Partner Kevin McGovern:

    “I wanted to provide everyone a quick update on our operations. Period 2 for us ended on July 25st and AERS (Audit and Enterprise Risk Services) finished ahead of plan by about $2M. Business Risk finished slightly below plan with hours being slightly ahead of plan and rate being the main driver of the revenue shortfall. Thank you all for playing your part in contributing to our performance thus far.

    Over the next 3 weeks or so we will also reach a couple of Talent milestones that are extremely important – (a) communication on promotions, compensation and Annual Incentive Plan, and (b) goal setting which needs to be completed by the end of this month.

    Now, as the summer comes to an end and we prepare for our annual busy season, we wanted to take a moment to communicate our expectations on utilization for all client service staff in Business Risk and Technology Risk, excluding Partners/Principals/Directors (P/P/D).

    For our seasonal businesses we have to execute a lot of work in a short timeframe and in order to meet client demands we will expect all BR and TR professionals to work and charge 50 hour weeks beginning August 24th through March 5th (i.e., Period 4 through Period 10). This is simply taking what many of us experienced on a regional level in prior years, to a national implementation approach…what we need you to do, such as working closely with your Talent professional to adjust your personal schedule, and consolidating engagement team needs as soon as possible.”

    Further details of expectations:

    “..beginning in Period 4 through Period 10 (August 24th – March 5th) we will expect all Business Risk and Technology Risk professionals to support our operational goals by working busy season hours on all engagements possible. This will also allow us to more equitably distribute the work and project assignments across all of our professionals.

    After considering the various legacy practices we have decided that during this period, each professional when assigned full-time to a client project is expected to work and charge 50-hour weeks. This is simply a consistent national implementation of what used to be multiple slightly different regional models with the objective of generating at least the same outcome on average across our practice this year as we have had in prior years. We realize that many of you will take some personal time off in Periods 7 and 8 and so our expectations for those weeks – typically 1 week in November and 1-2 weeks in December will be different.

    …If you schedule less than 50 hours a week your Talent Professional will contact you to understand your situation… begin consolidating your engagement resource needs as soon as possible taking the 50 hour week requirement into consideration. ..not all budgets can handle 50 hour weeks, so work with the engagement P/P/D to consolidate work where possible, but this will be on an exception basis. If you plan to take PTO during the holidays please submit your request for approval as soon as possible so Talent professionals can place this time on your schedule. We would ask you to refrain from taking large extended PTO time during timeframes other than the holidays…”

    Looks like a staffing firm to me. Do clients realize they may also see higher or compressed billing if they’re not on flat retainers? They will also see fewer people working longer hours in order to reach the utilization goals. Also more higher level staff will be looking for chargeable hours or perhaps doing staff work in order to attain those and therefore having less time to review work or, worse, end up reviewing their own work. Better scrutinize those invoices.

    The reaction to these announcements by those in the firm I know has been a combination of disgust, bemusement, and resignation – not the actual kind, but the intellectual and spiritual kind, which is worse for a professional and for morale.

    Some specific data that a source says was discussed on a recent call held by AERS leadership in the Northeast:
    “1st years are going to get 1-1.5% increase from their base. No bonus (AIP).
    2nd years getting promoted are going to get 2-6% increase. No bonus (AIP).
    For seniors (and managers) who aren’t up for promotion: 1s and 2s – 1.5-3%. Those rated a ‘3’ are likely to get no increase.
    Annual Incentive Program –
    If you are rated a ‘1’, $4,500, ‘2’ $2,000, ‘3’ for the most part (~50%) will get nothing but are up for a possible $1,000.
    New managers are going to start at approximately $80,000 with their raise. This is considerably lower than the average starting base of $92,000. No midyear adjustments. Also being discussed is the possibility extending the number of years before individuals are eligible for promotion to at least 3 years for senior’s and at least 6 years to manager, a change from 2 years and 5 years.. Deloitte partners are aware that new seniors are getting paid basically the same as 3-rated experienced seniors. The perception of those I spoke to is that experienced seniors who are 3 rated are angry because they’re performing as expected and getting the short end of the stick. In comparison all first years are likely to get a raise even though they are not that much more knowledgeable than a 2nd year. This jam-up is due to the fact Deloitte didn’t rescind the new hire offers in order to keep their edge on the recruiting scene and instead came back to them with lower salaries and sign on bonuses.  One interesting comment is that there are still individuals within the firm that were rated a 4 – not meeting expectations, that may have been kept around to fulfil staffing requirements.
    It looks like Deloitte will be short handed on seniors and staff this year given the recent cuts along with attrition that will result from the annual compensation. As the e-mail that was sent out above describes, those who remain will be asked to work harder and longer hours to make up for the difference.  I was told that the number one and two driving factors for most people at this level is 1) the compensation 2) the dream of making manager and moving on… Something was also said on the call about shrinking in the upcoming year, but then the speaker would not comment on what this meant when those attending the call started asking questions. The speaker’s tone quickly changed into one of frustration at people’s questions and basically told them they are lucky to get anything in today’s environment while the competition is doing the opposite.

    Since this reflects a call that took place in the northeast we can only imagine how it is for poorer performing regions.

    Another source tells this story:

    “I finished this past year with an overall 2 rating. I received a 4.5% increase in my own personal compensation. My office is considered a small to medium office (~100 professionals); however, prior to losing a big client and the recent layoffs we were much closer to 150.

    The partner also told me that professionals receiving a 3 rating who were in a promotion year (at least at the senior level) would receive a 1.5-3% raise. But those receiving a 3 who were not in a promotion year would not receive a compensation increase this year. The firm strategically did not inform anyone on the staff of their compensation increases prior to the comp discussion for a reason. According to this partner, the firm decided that since so many individuals would not receive a raise in the current year, they would wait to disclose comp increases face to face. “

    And to confirm my comments about forced ranking, another source gave this info:

    “As for the “forced rankings,” there is definitely something to that. My peer group’s ratings were like this:
    Of the total group as of six months ago,
    14% individuals receiving a 2
    57% individuals receiving a 3
    28% individuals let go over the past 6 months.

    Another group (currently being promoted to 5th year senior) were rated like this:

    17% individuals received a 2
    50% individuals received a 3
    33% individuals let go over the past 6 months.”

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    182 Responses »

    1. I wonder if they really plan on another big wave of layoffs or if they just plan on working people into the ground, keeping raises as low as possible and hoping attrition takes care of the downsizing for them. That way they avoid the negative PR and they avoid severance costs.

    2. exatamundo!..well said

    3. I’ve heard there’s another round of cuts going on now at Deloitte, in particular focused on visa holders. Houston has been hit, for example.
      Francine

    4. @FM
      Any news about service line or any of the Midwest offices for D&T?

      Word on the street is that E&Y tax has started some layoffs today. At least four 2nd years let go from friends I’ve talked to.

    5. Tom Friedman, should try working in auditing/ accounting before he flipantly throws the profession to the robots. There is lots of qualitative, subjective aspects of the job.

      Every high school senior should be forced to read Tom’s book “The World is Flat” before they waste tens of thousands of dollars on a college education in a field that is going away.

    6. @106, that article didn’t even have the word “auditing” in it. Friedman simply wrote that you can’t get by by being an average accountant, lawyer, assembly line worker etc. anymore because of software and robotics advances and outsourcing (i.e. global competition). I say, no crap, captain obvious. “The World is Flat” is also not some epiphany either. The message it puts forth is something most people should have known for the past 15 years if they just followed the news. Even still, the rapidity in which Asia is catching up is alarming. China is now expected to overtake the U.S. in nominal GDP as early as 2030. Even a few years ago this would have been difficult to imagine, but with the debasement of the dollar, more likely it will come even sooner.

      Now, auditing certainly has “qualitative” aspects and maybe even aspects that require acute decision-making skills. But is it a really such a sophisticated profession that D’s 3,000+ rank and file partners should get hundreds of K’s in payouts annually…I say probably not. This is why PPDs are pushing AERS India so hard in order to control operating costs and fighting tooth and nail to maintain their way of life despite “17%” U-6 unemployment.

      http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

    7. @106 – Friedman did no such thing as throw the profession to the robots. He referred to the “average” worker and listed example including accountants, His comment has nothing to do with the accounting profession. He is stating that as a culture we cannot expect the more repetitive and less innovative jobs to stick around at the wages they have — because they can be done by cheaper foreign labor or automated. The degree to which foreign workers and sutomation will take away jobs remains to be seen. I have seen all kinds of cycles in this and similar areas. Examples:

      1) in the 70s and 80s people used to say programmers would not be needed in 10 years because of self-generating code (e.g., the job could be automated). All that happened is that programmers now use a variety of languages and tools to build systems and applications – rather than just using the standard programming languages.

      2) the was a big movement in the 90s to move in-house IT departments to contractors. In time they learned that they needed the in-house knowledge of their business processes and dedication to their systems. They have been returning to in-house IT departments, but the model isn’t exactly the same as it used to be.

      3) in the 90s the idea of client-server applications was touted as the replacement for mainframes. Mainframe became a bad word. Well, mainframes are still around. Further the client-server concept was drastically revamped and ultimately turned into thin clients connecting to large central repository servers (maybe not IBM mainframes – but functioning the same as that mainframe). So instead of a mainfram with dumb terminals, it went to a server with thin clients.

      So Friedman is predicting changes due to cheap foreign labor and automation — there is nothing new in that. He is right that these forces will impact the job market in the US. He is correct that Americans will have to re-tool and adjust to the new model. But if we learn from history — the changes won’t be so dramatic that Americans will not have jobs or the accounting profession will be automated (which he did not say it would be). Is it true that our American education system is failing our students — probably more right than wrong. But that isn’t news. The thing he points out is obvious — that there is change in the job market and the education system produced people to meet the old market conditions… so the current group of working people need to evolve some (the older ones have done this numerous times and can do it again) and the current grads are going to be hurt some. But the education system will adjust as well,and the world will not fall apart.

    8. @104

      fm, how is it that companies in general (not just the big 4) go around targeting groups for layoffs (e.g., after reading various posts on this blog and analyzing the aftermath of the 08/09 layoffs at Deloitte from the inside, it strongly looks like a lot of minorities, visa holders and single mothers were let go)? Do you know how one could get the EEOC off their behinds to look into this (or maybe you know a labor lawyer who can post a guest entry on the blog)? Any pointers will be much appreciated.

    9. @JB

      It takes a village… Basically very few complain, sue, or otherwise raise a stink. Hell, most don’t even try to negotiate their severance or even know what they deserve legally. If there were a group who would go and all file complaints at the EEOC, they would investigate. If there was a group who wanted to explore a suit, there are attorneys ready and waiting. After all, the wage and hour suits are looking quite successful. Typically accounting/audit professionals are afraid of blackballing and retaliation in future employment. Unless they are ready for that challenge, personally and financially, most don’t bother and the firms are counting on this. Visa holders are at a distinct disadvantage because they typically have to leave the country quickly, especially now.
      Francine

    10. […] fewer clients to call these days anyway. Maybe instead of the CEO of the global firm calling, the local partners should have shown some spine, such as with Bear Stearns and Washington […]

    11. The management at Deloitte is nothing short of incompetent and out of the touch with the staff at the firm. In April’s town hall meeting Owen Ryan stated point blank that he did not care if talented people left the firm and that if you wanted to be paid in accord with the market Deloitte is not the place for you.

      This firm has been hemmorraging talent and while a few talented partners recognize the fact that morale has never been worse and everyone intelligent is leaving as soon as possible. Deloitte is already a shell of itself and only heading downhill. I would not recommend this firm to anyone for perspective employment or hiring for outside consulting services.

    12. I just had 4 seniors resigned this week. When the economy is doing better, everyone is jumping the ship. I heard that they are still kicking partners and directors out…

    13. The AERS practice in the Northeast has effectively imploded or been outsourced to Indiana. Once another round of 3% raises this year on top of nothing last year only the poorest of the poor will remain at DT.

    14. Walking around D&T WFC office and appears another round of DT layoffs is in the works.

    15. Care to elaborate on that last comment? Do you know of actual layoffs or just rumors? Audit? Consulting? Tax?

    16. The new modus operandi at Deloitte is the smart people leave; the dumb ones make Partner. Owen Ryan sharpening his axe and have to make the partner units number despite most Partners not justifying anything.

    17. Silly, D&T is losing people everyday. Why do they need another round of layoff?

    18. D&T needs to pay bloated Partner salaries for $1000 unit when unit values are grossly overvalued for the minimal level of competence provided. Will have to fire staff to support these units. A D&T consulting unit at my present company and an embarressment for how dumb the Deloitte people are. Would recommend firing them and withholding any remittances.

    19. @113: I had no idea costs were so low in Indiana…. 😉

      Before I left DT, senior managers / managers were being asked (not quite required but close) to ship work offshore to India. My experiences with the quality were mixed at best. In my view it’s another step (along with SOX testing) to removing audit skills, judgment and professional skepticism from the audit process. “done the audit? Check”

    20. I think all 4 firms are in bad situations with the top population of managers, senior managers not having actual skills but checked all the boxes and stayed the required duration to get promoted regardless of the promotion being warranted.

    21. I worked at 3 of the 4 Big 4 audit firms, and quite frankly the caliber of people being employed by these firms now is an embarressment It is partially due with the fact that the pay is to high at the partner level and to low at the associate level – but the line staff I deal with on my job are awful and I would fire them all if not for that fact that most of the good employees quit and the underperformers remain.

    22. Was at a client site and where the client contact read this memo. Asked point blank about Kevin McGovern, his blatant overbilling, and if this was inplace on this engagement.

    23. @Anonymous 122

      That’s thrilling!

    24. Priceless. The Corp Controller ex-D&T fired in the 2008 massacre when Barry S. tried to trim the fat and get himself down to size 40 pants. Client asked how Kevin McGovern was not in jail for his blatant over-billing practice. D&T Partner actually acknowledged that Kevin McGovern probably should be in jail although would have said anything to end the conversation.

    25. Wow. That firm is really a mess.

    26. Managers are basically being forced to ship the work off to India- a portion of the year end evaluation process includes what percentage of their budgets have been given to India, those who have shipped more work over will be rated higher.

      There is such a shortage of staff, that entire projects are being given to India. I know of a few 600+ hour projects that will be done entirely by India. To me, not only is this bad for building client relationships (how good of a relationship can you have, when the entire project is done via conference calls and email?!), but I wonder when it will get to the point that the PCAOB starts commenting as to how effective our audits really are with so much work being outsourced…

    27. #126 – absolutely agree on your last point. I cannot see how you can do many audit procedures without sitting in front of someone and talking face to face. Working remotely, regardless of how good the staff are is not a way to do a quality audit.

    28. It seems like a just a matter of time until D&T has another major violation. This firm has cut costs to a minimum so there is a no oversight and internally everyone knows it’s a free for all.

      Additionally, with the continued off-shoring to India and increased focus the firm will most likely continue to reduce headcount as a way to generate internal profitabliity. The partners realize its so much cheaper to send work to India why do we need professionals in the USA.

    29. #128. Not just professionals in the US. The entire Deloitte OIM operation (40+) in Czech Republic has just been told they are all to lose their jobs with everythinh going to India. Ongoing projects (designed to protect Deloittes ‘good’ name) and support desk all axed.

    30. i have seen a spike in linkedIn connections in the last few days – wonder if that’s a sign off more cuts at DT……maybe just coincidence….

    31. From my Twitter stream this morning:
      Deloitte is being investigated by Czech anti-corruption police? Not good for the “leader in public sector consulting.” http://bit.ly/bgdpaP

      http://twitter.com/retheauditors/statuses/17489992062

    32. I’ve been doing a lot of linkedin these days, #30 …. could also be a sign of people prepping to voluntarily jump (like myself ;))

    33. Things must be tough at D – partners are hawking senior manager resumes to clients….

    34. Seen a barrage of Deloitte resumes in circulation. Most of the Deloitte people have seen consulting at my company are below average (probably straight D’s in community college) and didnt think their were any compentent employees left at D&T.

    35. 134. Assuming you are a client, I’m disappointed to hear those comments. I would strongly encourage you to express these concerns either with your procurement office or directly with the partner. These situations are not taken lightly and you should demand to see the resumes and credentials of the resources proposed.

      Regarding the competency comment, you may want to question the motives of your source.

      As a quick background on my situation (not audit), I’m looking to move outside of the firm as well but for personal reasons

    36. D&T STL is losing the few decent people yjay have stuck around because of what the Firm has done in the past couple of years. They are now giving new managers 1’s and 2’s to keep them happy and make sure there are still people to send out to clients. It is sad what happened to this Firm.

    37. Regarding my earlier post, I didn’t mean to pick on the new managers. They are doing the same with a lot of other people that don’t deserve i t.

    38. People are leaving crazy in the NYC office. Keep in mind, people are leaving right before they are giving out the bonus and the raise. They could not even wait for another month. What does that tell you? A partner told me that they may give away good bonus this year so people will be happy. My reply was “seriously, you still don’t get the point, do you? People are not sticking around in big 4 just for the money, and today they are leaving because all the s**t you guys did to them in last 2 years”.

      I expressed this a few times on this blog. The problem at Uncle D is from all the so called leaders who made many bad decisions. They were panic and did not know what to do. If you don’t get rid of them and change the direction of the firm. The ship will continue to sink.

    39. The NYC D&T office and leadership is so bad that people aren’t even requiring raises to leave. I’ve known multiple people who have left for minimal raises 5% or same dollars, the morale is just so awful and the Partners have really stuck it to everyone since 2008.

      Not a surprise to anyone within the organization a good example of how to run an organization into the ground.

    40. Karma is a b!tch. What goes around, comes around. Its well deserved.

    41. Any confirmation to the rumor that Barry Salzburg was going to resign after his awful tenure as a leader of the firm?? Heard it from 3 different D&T people (including one Partner) so potentially some traction. He definitely should but…

    42. How are D&T raises shaping up and trying to gauge internal rumblings – have heard 4-7% range.

    43. @142, the question you should ask is this: how many people will be laid off or fired, in order to have the amount of money necessary to support a 4-7% range raise? Second, will Deloitte be able to sustain a decent raise in the future, given the current state of the economy and its reputation in the market place? Third, and most importantly, if Deloitte were a publicly traded corporation on the NYS exchange, would you use your hard earn money to invest in its stock?

      Public accounting firms (and corporations) are know to toss out the top dog/leader and blame such person, when things go south. Last question, how many of the corporations who have tossed out CEOs have recover and how long did it take such corporations to recover? When one’s name is in the mud, its so hard for that one to climb out of the mud and completely wash off all traces of mud.

    44. @143 D&T can only continue to blatanly overbill/overstaff its clients for so long.

    45. @144 it is surprising that DT has gotten away with it for as long as it has. In this economic environment, clients are watching their spending carefully, and the days of overbilling/overstaffing are likely coming to an end.

      Francine have you heard any rumblings about DT Tax in San Francisco? Judging by Linkedin activity, many seem to be on the prowl or recently departed — mostly for lateral positions. Are people being laid off or simply fed up and leaving for anything? It is quite interesting that for a firm that supposedly is one of the “best” places to work for women and minority, so many women and minority are leaving.

    46. @ 141 Ole’ Barry has been named 2010 Executive of the Year by ABA. Anyone ever heard of the ABA? It seems like when the reputations of anyone of DT’s mafia guns are questioned, the person gets named this or that by some unknown magazine.

      http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_US/us/press/Press-Releases/487f2e198a989210VgnVCM100000ba42f00aRCRD.htm

      One thing that DT does well is shameless self promotion. It probably worked well, when the economic times were good. However, if you sell but can’t deliver in the poor economic times, clients soon see through your games.

      If you check out the DT site, you’ll see lots of changes in Tax leadership positions, starting with the one below.

      http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GX/global/press/ceo-communications/recent-news/abf114bc27903210VgnVCM200000bb42f00aRCRD.htm

      There are a few recent Office Tax Managing Partner changes too, and these guys essentially manage the income statement for each office. Query what happened to the previous OMTPs in such regions.

      One has to wonder what really is going on …

    47. The running joke around the D&T water coolers by the staff is the good people all leave, the bad people make Partner. Barry Salzburg and current leadership team certainly reinforce that statement.

      I’m waiting to get my 2% bonus this month and then joining the good people that have departed. This place is headed down with no upside in sight and the current leadership can cheer all they want about how this is the best place to work, but only they believe that (maybe not anymore).

    48. They did all the layoffs in past 2 years, now they are hiring again, given people leave every day as the market is getting better. Talking about good business sense, they first spent all the money on severance package, and now all the money on recruitments, just within one short year. Not to mention things like training, work quality, impacts on morale or all other good stuff. Someone above was right, based on my observation, the people who are leaving now, most of them are those top performers. Why? Because they are the most marketable ones, and they don’t waste their time going down with the firm. Does Uncle Deloitte learn anything from it? The irony part is that DT is selling services to teach other companies how run business… Speechless!!!

      September is coming, they will be a huge batch of people leaving after they get their $2000 bonus…

    49. Look at it like this…

      In NYC, D&T, PWC, and EY are the 3 main professional services firms. Lets say the top 3 banks in NYC are Goldman, JPM, and maybe Bank of America, although that can be debated.

      For someone that has been at their respective firm for 6 years out of college the bonus at the audit firms are approx 2-4k vs the banks which are 20-50k (which could be low for a top performer i think), while the hours are probably higher at the audit firms.. Does that make any sense at all????

      that doesnt even include the cocktail parties/ dinners that the banks have

      HELLOOOOOOOOOOO

    50. The pay at D&T NYC is nothing short of an embarressment which explains why that firm is only left with poor performers. You get what you pay for despite the fact that alot of D&T’ers think its a pay for performance firm (clearly not the case).

      It’s unfortunate as it used to be a great firm but if the firm were a car it would be a lemon with a new paint job. Looks good on the outside to the companies hiring D&T and the name recognition helps Deloitte get in the door. However once the staff (most of whom are unmotivated, checked out, or upset about how poorly they are paid) show up onsite, the clients no doubt feel like they were sold a bill of rotten goods.